Conversations with a Devout Muslim! (part three)

Assalamu alaikum! Peace be upn you! Below is a conversation I had with Webdawah this morning. I hope it is encouraging to you as you seek to defend the faith. It should become quickly obvious, but "livrevoar" is me, and "webdawah" is my Muslim friend:

livrevoar
Muhammad himself was so narcussistic that anyone who insulted him in any way was to suffer humiliating death, preferrably by beheading (read Sura 47:4). This was the demise of the Jewish poet, K'abbin Al-Ashraf, who was murdered because of what we would call "poetic justice."Anyone who rejected Muhammad or his message was called "the vilest of creatures" thus deserving no mercy (read Sura 98:6).Islam is anything but a religion of free thought and dialogue; it is the fingerprint of a demagogue.

webdawah
It is obvious that you don't know what reverence means. If you would express yourself without purposefully insulting others, then it's clear you want peace.

livrevoar
I don't intend to impugn Muhammad with baseless, ad hominem attacks. I believe he was a very sincere man who was convinced of his message. However, you have to understand that I only use the word "narcissist" in reference to Muhammad where it is warranted by the Qur'an. You must reflect over the following verses and remember that Muhammad's status is to be seen as "an excellent example of conduct" (Sura 33:21):

livrevoar
The first verse that indicates such narcissism is (Sura 111:1-5), where Muhammad is incensed over his uncle's apparent disbelief in his prophetic status. Muhammad proclaimed, "May the hands of Abu Lahab perish! May he himself perish! Nothing shall his wealth and gains avail him. He shall be burnt in a flaming fire, and his wife, laden with faggots, shall have a rope of fibre around her neck."

webdawah
You cannot read the Qur'an and tell the whole history of Muhammad(pbuh). He did not say the words of Surah 111:1-5 out of his own will, it was a revelation. What is the missing link is the torment, intimidation and death threats he had received from his own uncle, because he proclaimed one God.

livrevoar
Remember the Jewish tribes of Medinah, such as Banu Qurayzah and Qaynuqa, who no longer exist after their complete decimation, doubted Muhammad's prophetic status. When Muhammad was offended by the poetry of Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf, he went so far as breaking their covenant to have him killed at the hands of Muhammad bin Maslama (Bukhari: 4,56,3032. Muhammad soon despised the Jews, even saying, "You brothers of monkeys, has God disgraced you and brought his vengeance upon you."

livrevoar
In three places this same language is used in the Qur'an, equating the Jews with pigs and monkeys (2:62-65; 5:59-60,7:166). The Jews of the Qurayzah, when Muhammad's wrath brimmed over, cried, "O Muhammad, you are not a barbarous person" (Ibn Ishaq, 461). But Muahmmad, as you know, massacred every Jewish man with hair grown upon his pubes; numbering as many as 900; beheaded in one day. This confirms what the Quran teaches concernting unbelievers,"smite the necks of unbelievers"(Sura47:4)

livrevoar
It confirms what Sura 5:33 directs in the amputation of the hands and feet of unbelievers. It confirms what the Hadith teaches in the burning out of the eyes with heated iron bars, followed by leaving the subject in the desert to die, with the specific injunction that they be given no water, and that their pleas for mercy go unheard(Sahiah Bukhari, 7,76,5727). The specific instance recorded here was in reference to the punishment of shepherds who renouonced Islam.

livrevoar
The Qur'an is replete with a well developed theology if jihad against humanity, and yet you call the simple charge of "narcissism" "irreverent."As if the raping of the entire known world on every continent is not the most inhumane form of "irreverence" Satan has ever invented. Those Christians Indonesia, Sri Lanka, East Timor, and yes,the West Bank of Israel,being martyred by Islamists,are created in the image of God.They are his beloved creatures & their blood cries out for vindication.

livrevoar
But while the chief judge, Jesus Christ, prophesied as the Messiah in Daniel 9:25(Yeshua ha Mashiach),will one day bring condemnation, know that it is not my job to condemn,only to call you, who are a sinner no different than I, to repentance."It is of the Lord's mercies whereby we are not consumed because His compassions fail not" (Lam.3:22). God extends his compassion to you thru Jesus Christ, who bore your sins on the Cross. His death paid the penalty that should have brought us death.

livrevoar
But praise be to God that through his life, you too may have life, webdawah (Romans 6:4, Ephesians 2:1-5, I Peter 2:24-25).

webdawah
Equating some Jews with apes and pigs is not a detestation of Jewish people as a whole. The ones who delibrately distort their scriptures, are the ones described as despicable. Try to read in context..Sura 47:4 confirmed nothing, you should try reading Deut. 20:14 and on. Actually a Jew prescribed this punishment if you are really interested in knowing the whole story and not just what helps your argument against the Prophet(pbuh)

livrevoar
Was Ibn Ishaq's Sirat, Ibn Sa'd, and all the others simply make it up??? Or could it be that you decide what parts of the Muslim tradition actually happened and didn't happen based on what reflects faborably or unfavorably on Islam. You're only standard is expedience. No, it is not very credible to me that one of the most revered Sirat of Muhammad would pull 6-7 hundred slaughtered out of the air.

webdawah
I'd believe everything in the New Testament if I can get past the four Gospels. I'm still expecting your reaction to my "Dubious Writings" series.

webdawah
It's amazing that you mention these places where Christians have lived for generations and vastly outnumbered by Muslims. I'd expect that they would have been conpletely annihilated, but that's not the case. Isolated clashes are blown out of proportion by people like yourself who are desperate for a score against Islam.The Palestinian ambassador to the U.S. is a Christian, who blames some other people for their woes....The Jews.

livrevoar
What you don't take into account is that Christians are not desparate for a "score" against Islam. Jesus builds his church (Matt.16:18) we simply stand in awe of his splendor. Jesus Christ is Lord over all, and the day will come when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that he is Lord(Phi.2:10-11, Psalm 2:6-7, Acts 4:24-28). We are not called to score through military conquest/politics. We plant, we water, but God gives the harvest.I have to go to work,but I hope to speak more.

webdawah
Ibn Ishaq did write a biography, but did not go through isnad(the science of chain of narrators). It is known that one of his sources on this particulr event was a Jew. Could we not then be suspicious of the content? The Qur'an actually mentions the same event, without mentioning a number or hinting at a huge number for that matter.

webdawah
Narrated Ibn Abbas: When the Verse:--'And warn your tribe of near-kindred, was revealed, the Prophet ascended the Safa (mountain) and started calling, "O Bani Fihr! O Bani 'Adi!" addressing various tribes of Quraish till they were assembled. Those who could not come themselves, sent their messengers to see what was there. Abu lahab and other people from Quraish came and the Prophet then said,...

webdawah
..."Suppose I told you that there is an (enemy) cavalry in the valley intending to attack you, would you believe me?" They said, "Yes, for we have not found you telling anything other than the truth." He then said, ...

webdawah
..."I am a warner to you in face of a terrific punishment." Abu lahab said (to the Prophet) "May your hands perish all this day. Is it for this purpose you have gathered us?" Then it was revealed: "Perish the hands of Abu lahab (one of the Prophet's uncles), and perish he! His wealth and his children will not profit him...."(111.1-5)(Book #60,Hadith #293)

The conversation continues, but I had to cut it off. Although I don't get much in the way of true answers from Webdawah, but as you can tell, he is very zealous in defending Islam in light of my critique. I hope to answer some of his last statements tomorrow.

The most intruguing thing he said today was "I'd believe everything in the New Testament if I could just get past the Gospels." My ears really perked when I read this, and I think that's exactly where I'm going to go next.